Belly dance scene was an "international scene" and that is why it was so exciting!
Very true Aziza. It truly was international. When I was working in Greektown in Detroit it was so much fun. Greektown was considered a tourist destination and we used to get busloads of tourists. There were always 2 shows. The first show was the "American show". This show was for the tourists. There were always 2 belly dancers and 2 singers, male and female. One of the singers would be an international singer that could sing in several languages: Greek, Armenian, Israeli, Spanish, Arabic, Turkish, etc. The band would play songs such as Aziza, Mustapha, Never on Sunday, Ta Mavra Matia Sou, Lawrence of Arabia, Blue Spanish Eyes, etc.
The second show was more "Greek". Now we started getting into the more traditional Greek songs. The music became more sentimental. The Greeks would close up their shops in Greektown and come to the bouzouki clubs. Also on their days off, the Arabic musicians would come down too. Often a derbke player would be invited to play for the belly dancer.
The clubs were open 6-7 days a week. All the musicians and dancers from the Arabic clubs would come to Greektown on their days off. It really was a party and family atmosphere. It was like Cheers, in a way. It was home. Greektown was considered THE place to work for belly dancers as the pay was higher. However the best dancers were usually the ones that were proficient and skilled in Arabic music. That's why so many "Greek" songs were really revamped Arabic songs. And the style of dancing was a blend of American Caberet, Raks Sharqi, Turkish.....It's so hard when I try to describe the style to someone who has never seen it. I'm hoping in my upcoming Chicago workshop to shed some light on the subject but nothing is like experiencing it firsthand.
Alas, the last Greek supper club in Detroit closed in 1997 and just last week, a famous Greek restaurant that had been around for 108 years closed it doors.
I know Chicago still has a Greektown although they haven't had belly dancers since at least the mid to late 80's.
Any other Greektown's in America still thriving?
Very true Aziza. It truly was international. When I was working in Greektown in Detroit it was so much fun. Greektown was considered a tourist destination and we used to get busloads of tourists. There were always 2 shows. The first show was the "American show". This show was for the tourists. There were always 2 belly dancers and 2 singers, male and female. One of the singers would be an international singer that could sing in several languages: Greek, Armenian, Israeli, Spanish, Arabic, Turkish, etc. The band would play songs such as Aziza, Mustapha, Never on Sunday, Ta Mavra Matia Sou, Lawrence of Arabia, Blue Spanish Eyes, etc.
The second show was more "Greek". Now we started getting into the more traditional Greek songs. The music became more sentimental. The Greeks would close up their shops in Greektown and come to the bouzouki clubs. Also on their days off, the Arabic musicians would come down too. Often a derbke player would be invited to play for the belly dancer.
The clubs were open 6-7 days a week. All the musicians and dancers from the Arabic clubs would come to Greektown on their days off. It really was a party and family atmosphere. It was like Cheers, in a way. It was home. Greektown was considered THE place to work for belly dancers as the pay was higher. However the best dancers were usually the ones that were proficient and skilled in Arabic music. That's why so many "Greek" songs were really revamped Arabic songs. And the style of dancing was a blend of American Caberet, Raks Sharqi, Turkish.....It's so hard when I try to describe the style to someone who has never seen it. I'm hoping in my upcoming Chicago workshop to shed some light on the subject but nothing is like experiencing it firsthand.
Alas, the last Greek supper club in Detroit closed in 1997 and just last week, a famous Greek restaurant that had been around for 108 years closed it doors.
I know Chicago still has a Greektown although they haven't had belly dancers since at least the mid to late 80's.
Any other Greektown's in America still thriving?
posted by:
|
Detroit
|
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 3:30 PMIt was nice reading this, sounds like paradise! -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 12:22 PMHey Norma,
(Oh, they were "paradises" weren't they?) What you said about Greeks entertaining everyone is so true! They had a knack for that and were the most succesful purveyors of belly dance. The pay at these venues meant you had a career. One observation of dancing is that "old style" Arabic, Turkish, Greek Dance was really the same. The "meat and potatoes" of belly dance was "ciftetelli" (one, two-two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight) or what the Greeks called "Arapiko" which translates as "Arab Dance" and is played out on drum "Doum Tek Tek Doum Tek." Miserlou is an "Arapiko" and that has been my veil work since I was one.
In GreekTown in NYC the very best dancers in the 1960's were from overseas, particularly Turkey and these were exquisite belly dancers. Many of the ones Johanna worked with in the 60's I worked with in the 70's. They were extremely graceful and technically skilled in the dance.
Ozel Turkbas was the featured dancer at the Moroccan Pavillion for the "64" World's Fair. She was a great dancer and Arabs liked her. Johanna loved Ozel's dancing and was influenced by her when they worked together in Greektown.
Most divisiveness over belly dance styles (EGAD I Hate the word "Styles") has more to do with things that happened in the late 70's in NY over clubs going out of business and competition.
Greektown in NYC was closed down by crime. I witnessed a lot of hearts breaking when that happened. Fortunately, there were clubs in other parts of town and Johanna was able to continue and I was able to have a career as a child. (I never worked in the old Greektown District as they did not take children. I worked other Greek venues in other parts of the city. The first club in Greektown my mother took me into after I was born to show me off was the "Port Said."
Even trouble between Turkey and Greece over Cypress could not stop the music in the 70's. The nail in the coffin was Mayor Lindsay letting the crime element take over the general area. Like I said, thank God it went on in other parts of town at least for several more years.
Someone, tell me where there is a Greektown now and my bags are packed tomorrow!
-
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 12:47 PMOh, and I forgot to mention that Greektown in NYC had mostly musicians who were Gypsies, either Greek, Turkish or Armenian. There were some Arabic musicians in the mix.
The music was very exciting stuff there. They used to take off the mouthpiece from the "Clarino" and blow through that and it was meant to be like chirping of a bird. "Old Style" belly dance from most countries that had it were indeed related to things in nature. Snakes, birds, etc.
One thing I miss in modern belly dance music is that kind of excitement, the "Clarino Chirp" etc. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 1:44 PMIs that how they did that chirp?
Yeah there really wasnt' this division of styles back then. Their was a style difference as far as each individual dancer was concerned. Shadiah had her style, I had my style, Sharifa and Habiba had their style. We all had unique personal styles. But there was no such thing as Turkish, Greek, Arabic, Lebanese style. It was all belly dance and the only difference was in the music.
I didn't know the Greektown in NYC had closed down that early. I guess I got it confused with Astoria?
We still have a Greektown in Detroit but no Greek nightclubs.
The Chicago Greektown has a club I think but they haven't had belly dancers there since at least the 80's. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 7:01 AMNot completely on topic but I am soooooo sad about Hella's. Laikon and Hella's are my "family" restaurants. I've been going there since I was a baby. Just a shame.
Doesn't that newer place, Mosaic, have dancers sometimes? I've never been in. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 7:58 AMMosaic? Never even heard of it. I'll have to check into it.
I usually go to Parthenon as the owners there used to own Mykonos Supper Club where I used to dance. The owner of Bouzouki now works at Pegasus.
-
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 7:09 AMI hear people referring to the Astoria venues as being in Greektown Norma. Mezzo Mezzo is one of them and has wonderful musicians. The last time I danced there Omar Faruk Tekbilek came and sat in. Officially he doesn't play for dancers anymore, but occasionally one might get lucky :) . Regardless- amazing music...one of the Greek waiters did a kick a$$, spontaneous Zaybek dance, regulars were there, quite a few of whom used to be dancers in the very era we're speaking of.
But the places now are not as big as the places used to be. It simply has changed.
Baltimore has a Greektown and they USED to have dancing and musicians. Unfortunately there was an ordinance passed quite some time ago about there being no live entertainment in Greektown anymore. It's quite rundown now and is just one or two blocks worth of restaurants. The food is quite good at the ones I've been to, but the walk does not always feel the safest in town. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 8:00 AMAn ordinance passed for no live entertainment? What moron came up with that?
-
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 8:39 AMNorma, I think it was some conservatives in response to some entertainment of the "not family friendly" variety. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 9:27 AMThe old Greektown in NYC that was "The Greektown" of NYC lore was Eighth Avenue and 29th Street. There is an old record album that we cherish called Greektown USA that features photos of the entrances to many of the 15 or so clubs that operated in the district up until that time. I loved "Greektown," but as I said, they didn't take children, I worked other restaurant/clubs as a child all over the city and the outer boroughs (and of course, banquets/parties "club dates.)" My mother was fortunate to work every one of the Greektown nightclubs until the "bitter end." She was at Egyptian Gardens two weeks before it closed. The floor was so covered with tips after she finished that Kesban threw open her dressing room door, showered Johanna with all the bills she could hold and cried, "This is really yours!" (In Greektown you were paid so well that you didn't get your tips. This was a thank you gesture for the almost fifteen years of her working Greektown). The beautiful Armenian Gypsy musician Roupen Altiparmakian gave my mother a ride home. They were longtime friends and it was a sad time.
Before my time a lovely lady had a little girl of about eight years she started bringing to the clubs. The little girl was "Pretty Baby Hydra." The clubs wouldn't take her, but her mother persisted and finally they took her at sixteen years old and she was able to work some. The lesson: "NEVER GIVE UP!" The mother's hands were scarred. She had been in the Russian circus with an oriental sword dance act. If asked about her hands she would say, "I did sword act and one night...I missed." -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 5:48 AMHey Norma! Mosaic is on the corner of Monroe and Beaubien on the north east corner. I could have sworn Lana told me she has danced there but I don't know if it is a regular thing or not. www.mosaic-detroit.com/ -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 12:22 PMSamira,
That's sads about Baltimore. It's terrible that in our country now ethnic entertainment is being targeted. Arabic people with clubs in Anaheim were targeted about a year ago. It's a terrible double standard. So much in American culture-in our entertainment is so degrading-it's terrible to think they want to target Middle East/Near Eastern culture. It's really like a cultural "genocide."
In other words we can go see people hacked to death on screen and graphic sex-but a "fairy tale" princess of the "East" in her pretty costume- and pretty music, etc. is considered bad. That is a sad commentary. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 6:13 PMAziza,
It's my understanding the ordinance was passed because there were a couple strip clubs in the area and the residents weren't happy with it. Unfortunately it was too sweeping an ordinance.
But I agree with you entirely about the backwards thinking that it's perfectly fine for junior to see tons of violence, blood and gore, but the world will come to an end if he sees Janet Jackson's piercing, someone breastfeeding in public or a beautiful belly dancer who covers up more than they see on the beach. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Wed, April 16, 2008 - 7:41 AMWell that just goes to show how the general public still lumps belly dancers in the same category as strippers. Humph. You should see how people hip hop dance in Detroit! Now that's more indecent in my book.
I'll be heading down to Greektown in the next few weeks. I want to check out the music store. I'll look up this Mosaic place. -
-
Re: Spinoff from Feenjon: Greektown in America
Wed, April 16, 2008 - 1:31 PMOh, and in the good ole days, how wonderful the musicians were. They were in the "Musicians Union" and made tons of money in Greektown. They knew the public came to see the talented belly dancers that were in this country at the time and that their interpretation of their music gave them great success and happiness. Not to mention that it helped sell their records which were very popular. Musicians dressed well-had beautiful big "rings" with "rocks" and loved and respected belly dancers. Dance is a physical interpretation of music-the two are meant to be together- and they knew it-and they thrived TOGETHER. That is an emotion that I hate to see missing in the business. Greektowns were the embodiment of mutual artistic fulfillment.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
